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Author Topic: Captain America: Civil War - The first trailer  (Read 10358 times)
Dayle88
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2016, 03:05:53 PM »

You make some good points. One of the things I loved was Tony telling Peter to go home. He knew things were going to get worse and only wanted him as extra help to bring Cap back in. It was a nice touch that was another thing that showed Tony in a good light.

All things considered the film almost flipped the script of the comic book event between Tony and Steve. Tony tried to do his best in the most responsible way throughout the entire film while Steve did whatever the hell he wanted and made things worse for everybody including the people who sided with him. Only when pushed too far by the government people and going off to help Steve did Tony lose his temper once he found out about his parents.

We should take a moment and say how cool Tony's helicopter is. It deserves some credit.
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Iron Guy
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2016, 03:20:45 PM »

Every point you made was on target. Funny, some of them I hadn't even noticed until you pointed them out. And yes, in Ant-Man it shows that Pym had worked with Howard and Peggy Carter at SHIELD until they tried to duplicate his Pym Particle. The good news is that the rift will be healed come the next Avengers movie (it has to be, right?) I'd like to see that process played out on screen when they make it.
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ADour
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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2016, 09:10:04 PM »

Thank you, guys. While I believe the rift will be healed eventually, the Russo brothers mentioned that, kinda like in the comics, the divide will carry on forward. Considering the third and fifth Avengers movies are meant to be their own stories, I think we'll probably see the beginning of reunification by the end of the fifth movie, maybe the final battle against Thanos is what sparks this.
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ADour
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2016, 05:48:45 AM »

Oh, and how could I forget commenting on one really important thing.

Pepper.

They unceremoniously ended her and Tony's relationship off-screen. They throw off the window a relationship that was built up throughout three films (Pepper also appeared in the first Avengers, but nothing relevant happened between her and Tony). And they're the same guys who said "We believe things that are important and complex for a character to go through should be seen on camera." (source) In the audio-commentary of the movie, they point out that "Tony would have to be off-balance. And the way that we thought we could make him off-balance was by pulling things out of his life, making him emotionally vulnerable… Really emotionally vulnerable. So, Pepper is out of his life. It clearly is an issue for him, as you can see, by Robert’s performance here."

So, Pepper and Tony's relationship ending is important? Check. Is it seen on camera? Not at all.

The movie also acknowleged IM3's ending and cleared up a little bit the transition between that movie and AoU, explicitly mentioning that it was Hydra's resurgence what made Tony return to action. But this scene, combined with the break up, nullifies the ending of IM3. The movie ended with Tony taking a break from superheroics to focus on his relationship with Pepper, and now you have him mention that in the end that didn't matter?

The ending of Iron Man 3 didn't even directly point out that Tony was abandoning superheroics. He mentions Pepper he'd reduce his "distractions" (not get rid of them), picks up the screwdriver from the wreckage (indicating he was going to start again), and ends the movie telling the audiences (or Banner, actually) that he was Iron Man whether he had his suit or not.

I always felt that Tony's subsequent appearances could be worked around that. After all, the only thing that Tony needed to stop doing was focusing solely on obsessively building suits. Between IM3 and the beginning of AoU, Tony only got one new suit, which was basically to the MK 42 what the MK III is to MK II (an upgrade, a finished version, not even an entirely new suit from scratch). He also created the Hulkbuster, which was necessary and not created out of obsessive panic like the Iron Legion armors. There was also MK 45, but we know little of it. Still, only three suits, which was the average of suits between movies until the PTSD kicked in, so it didn't mean that Tony was neglecting his promise. We also saw him at the victory party, socializing instead of delving his head into cables and metal scrap.
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Dayle88
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2016, 12:45:37 PM »

While all valid points you're forgetting movies are business. They obviously don't want to pay her.
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ADour
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2016, 01:26:51 PM »

While all valid points you're forgetting movies are business. They obviously don't want to pay her.

Yeah, of course there's also that. However, they didn't need to justify her absence because of a break up. It also appeared that in early drafts of the movie, she was going to be pregnant. Of course, that wouldn't have come to pass, but, it's interesting that they considered Stark Jr.
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Iron Guy
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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2016, 12:32:52 AM »

You know, it's a shame that they didn't keep that. It would make the final showdown with Thanos more poignant. Because Tony wouldn't be fighting to save the world, he'd be fighting to save his wife and kid. It would no longer be abstract, but personal. I could see during the final battle Tony having little flashes of memory of Pepper and their child in between each blow and repulsor shot he throws at Thanos so you can see the desperation and anger that's driving him into putting everything he's got into the fight. I think both the movie and the character would've benefited from that pathos.
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ADour
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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2016, 11:47:15 AM »

You know, it's a shame that they didn't keep that. It would make the final showdown with Thanos more poignant. Because Tony wouldn't be fighting to save the world, he'd be fighting to save his wife and kid. It would no longer be abstract, but personal. I could see during the final battle Tony having little flashes of memory of Pepper and their child in between each blow and repulsor shot he throws at Thanos so you can see the desperation and anger that's driving him into putting everything he's got into the fight. I think both the movie and the character would've benefited from that pathos.

I think it would've been really interesting, but they probably didn't go with it because it's kind of a deviation from how Tony Stark is perceived, as a one-night-stand guy who doesn't settle down. Maybe they thought it would "age" him. Or maybe they didn't want to do it because the comics haven't.

It would still be in line with his character (Tony loves kids for example, and I think Vol 3 even had him daydraming about having children). But it's definetely a big step.

Maybe when RDJ finally steps down from playing Iron Man, we can have him and Pepper live happily with a kid somewhere far from a cliff.
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Dayle88
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« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2016, 03:10:32 PM »

Forget Pepper and Tony. Iron Man 4 would be the perfect time for Rumiko.
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IMJ
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2016, 01:07:10 AM »

nullifies the ending of IM3. The movie ended with Tony taking a break from superheroics to focus on his relationship with Pepper, and now you have him mention that in the end that didn't matter?

I'm finding it hard to believe that this is what you got out of this moreso than further evidence that Iron Man 3 was a complete crapfest of a movie.

Some people just keep drinkin the kool-aid no matter what....
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Dayle88
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2016, 09:24:20 AM »

Here we go again  Grin

Taking a break to work on a relationship doesn't mean it will work anyway. I don't see the problem with any of that stuff. Things have to move forward. These are blockbuster action films, every thing else is a bonus and with the way they are filling the films with characters the only place to get a Marvel study in depth now is Netflix (the shows have been better than the films by far anyway...)
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ADour
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2016, 11:20:54 AM »

Yeah, man. Amazing how some people just keep drinking the Kool-Aid no matter what.... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes










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Dayle88
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2016, 05:32:09 PM »

Back to some relevance. One thing I really didn't like after watching the film again is that during the airport fight Iron Man can't hit Falcon. Probably the worst decision Marvel have made. Their action is usually great and doesn't usually do anything too out of place. That was pretty stupid though.
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ADour
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2016, 05:54:17 PM »

Back to some relevance. One thing I really didn't like after watching the film again is that during the airport fight Iron Man can't hit Falcon. Probably the worst decision Marvel have made. Their action is usually great and doesn't usually do anything too out of place. That was pretty stupid though.

I like to attribute that none of the powerhouses of Team Iron Man landed many hits (if any at all) to the fact they were warning shots, because their intention was to go easy on Team Cap (it's also somewhat disappointing that what was an all-out battle in the comics ended up being Team Cap going for the kill vs. Team Stark pulling punches). Tony must've asked Friday to activate the Stormtrooper Aim Protocol or sumthin'.

But seriously, I agree. Falcon's new suit came with some handy and stupidly heavy plot armor.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 06:18:34 PM by ADour » Logged

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