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Author Topic: Fraction officially leaving  (Read 1205 times)
Stark Resilient
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2012, 07:48:30 PM »

That pretty much sums up most of his run.. Good ideas.. Poorly executed..
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"How do I feel? I saved ninety-seven-point-five percent of the human race, proved everyone who doubted me wrong, and I kicked the living crap out of the Mandarin.  I feel great"
Typhon
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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 01:37:27 AM »

That pretty much sums up most of his run.. Good ideas.. Poorly executed..

Word to that.  It's sad. 
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Stark Resilient
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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2012, 01:12:02 PM »

It really is. There is potential here for a good story.. Just cut the amount of issues it's run down (I mean did World's Most Wanted really have to run 12 issues? At least the Knaufs gave you 12 awesome issues that felt like it should have been a 12 issue story with DOS) and get a better grip on the characters your writing, and you have a solid story.

I'm not gonna miss him and "the Iron Man"
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"How do I feel? I saved ninety-seven-point-five percent of the human race, proved everyone who doubted me wrong, and I kicked the living crap out of the Mandarin.  I feel great"
Borjigin
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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2012, 03:12:04 PM »

I don't think even the ideas were good, since they all revolved around making Stark into Alcoholism-Incarnate. Most Wanted especially was about writing a metaphor for an alcoholic running away from all of his problems and drinking his mind into mush. That idea fundamentally sucks, and could not have been improved simply by making it shorter.
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Stark Resilient
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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »

I don't think even the ideas were good, since they all revolved around making Stark into Alcoholism-Incarnate. Most Wanted especially was about writing a metaphor for an alcoholic running away from all of his problems and drinking his mind into mush. That idea fundamentally sucks, and could not have been improved simply by making it shorter.

I'm not trying to say making it shorter instantly makes it better.  The bottom line is that he needs a better idea of what the characters are all about.  However, Tony Stark is an alcoholic and it's part of him. He definitely shouldn't be Alcoholism-Incarnate as you said.  WMW I don't think is all that metaphorical.  I feel like he wasn't running from his problems as much as he was just trying to keep everyone's secret identities safe.  Now that you mention it though, I can totally see what you mean.  I didn't get the feel that that was what Fraction was making him until Fear Itself.  Maybe I just missed it before then.. I haven't read his run thoroughly simply because I don't care enough to with his writing.
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"How do I feel? I saved ninety-seven-point-five percent of the human race, proved everyone who doubted me wrong, and I kicked the living crap out of the Mandarin.  I feel great"
Roger A Ott II
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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2012, 06:22:39 PM »

I don't think even the ideas were good, since they all revolved around making Stark into Alcoholism-Incarnate. Most Wanted especially was about writing a metaphor for an alcoholic running away from all of his problems and drinking his mind into mush. That idea fundamentally sucks, and could not have been improved simply by making it shorter.

You're already going far too deep. If you look at the basic premise (Tony wiping his mind to prevent Osborn from getting the info, for instance), they're not bad ideas. That exact story idea, fleshed out and written by someone who understands the core essence of the character, could have been phenomenal. But, it wasn't.

Same thing with this current arc. At it's core, you've got the Mandarin assembling some of IM's greatest villains to wage war against Tony Stark. That basic point, in and of itself, is sound. If you gave me that and only that, but said that David Michelinie or Len Kaminski (or, hey, let's go with someone more modern, like Ed Brubaker) was writing it, I'd be about 99% assured of a great, grand, in-character story.

One of Fraction's main failings in writing is that his scripts are rarely able to carry themselves. They're plodding, uninspired claptrap, with terrible dialogue.
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Borjigin
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2012, 07:19:32 PM »

I don't think even the ideas were good, since they all revolved around making Stark into Alcoholism-Incarnate. Most Wanted especially was about writing a metaphor for an alcoholic running away from all of his problems and drinking his mind into mush. That idea fundamentally sucks, and could not have been improved simply by making it shorter.

I'm not trying to say making it shorter instantly makes it better.  The bottom line is that he needs a better idea of what the characters are all about.  However, Tony Stark is an alcoholic and it's part of him. He definitely shouldn't be Alcoholism-Incarnate as you said.  WMW I don't think is all that metaphorical.  I feel like he wasn't running from his problems as much as he was just trying to keep everyone's secret identities safe.  Now that you mention it though, I can totally see what you mean.  I didn't get the feel that that was what Fraction was making him until Fear Itself.  Maybe I just missed it before then.. I haven't read his run thoroughly simply because I don't care enough to with his writing.

Disagree very strongly. His entire run is extremely heavy on subtext and metaphor. There are a million ways he could have gotten rid of the information in a sci-fi universe. Fraction specifically picked a method that heavily paralleled an alcoholic running from his problems both physically and by drinking his brain into mush. 
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2012, 08:16:22 PM »

Truthfully I never looked at as anything more than what it was on paper. I could never stand to read an issue more than once
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"How do I feel? I saved ninety-seven-point-five percent of the human race, proved everyone who doubted me wrong, and I kicked the living crap out of the Mandarin.  I feel great"
Typhon
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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2012, 10:01:42 PM »

I don't think even the ideas were good, since they all revolved around making Stark into Alcoholism-Incarnate. Most Wanted especially was about writing a metaphor for an alcoholic running away from all of his problems and drinking his mind into mush. That idea fundamentally sucks, and could not have been improved simply by making it shorter.

You're already going far too deep. If you look at the basic premise (Tony wiping his mind to prevent Osborn from getting the info, for instance), they're not bad ideas. That exact story idea, fleshed out and written by someone who understands the core essence of the character, could have been phenomenal. But, it wasn't.

Same thing with this current arc. At it's core, you've got the Mandarin assembling some of IM's greatest villains to wage war against Tony Stark. That basic point, in and of itself, is sound. If you gave me that and only that, but said that David Michelinie or Len Kaminski (or, hey, let's go with someone more modern, like Ed Brubaker) was writing it, I'd be about 99% assured of a great, grand, in-character story.

One of Fraction's main failings in writing is that his scripts are rarely able to carry themselves. They're plodding, uninspired claptrap, with terrible dialogue.

I'm with you 100% on this.  That's why I always say that the trades are misleading because when you read the synopsis on the back, the story sounds awesome.  When you actually sit down and read it... not so much. 
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mindcrime
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2012, 01:39:24 AM »

No words cannot express how happy this makes me Grin
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