And for the GRAND FINALE.......

[Roger A Ott II]

Oh wait, we are talking about the same writer who had Spymaster killed during Fear Itself and yet he is also currently still loitering around Stark Resilient in the current storyarc.

Again, I'm not trying to defend Fraction's shodding writing, but I would like to point out that the original Spymaster is very much alive. Norman Osborn hired him to steal something precious of Tony Stark's in DARK REIGN: MADE MEN (November, 2009).  It was Sinclair Abbott who died at the end of Fear Itself, which was fine with me.

[Mandarin]

What are the rest of you looking at? Fraction doesn't even suggest Tony is going to die. Do you really think Faction waited 50 issues to "get rid of Tony" and put in his own Iron Man. If he really wanted to do that he would have done it after World's Most Wanted.

Fraction doesn't hate Tony. Bendis talks about this ALL THE TIME. Any and every hardcore fan will attack and jump on EVERY creative team on a book. I mean lots of hardcore  Avengers fans don't like Busiek's Avenger's run because it's just a rip off of Roger Stern's run. This doesn't mean it's bad nor does it mean it's the general consensus. Iron Man sells well enough that Marvel doesn't think they need to remove Fraction. Fraction and all his friends at marvel and MARVEL like his take and think he's doing a good job. So he's not leaving till he wants to. I know saying "vote with your wallets" doesn't really apply here since most of you have dropped the book. But everyone else seems to be enjoying it nor do they think it's character assassination. And when most of the complaints are lack of action and characterization. Marvel DOES NOT CARE. Every single book they have get that complaint. That is the most common complaint about Bendis's books and they are constantly top selling books.

The point is Fraction does not hate Tony and he doesn't think "oh I'm going to get rid of Tony so fans can stop bitching" Because no matter WHAT he does people will bitch. He's writing the best he can doing what he thinks is good. And marvel and fans agree.

[Ironghost]

He's writing the best he can doing what he thinks is good. And marvel and fans agree.

If this is the best he can do, then marvel has some amazingly low standards.  I'm also unconcerned about what "Marvel Fans" think, to be blunt.  Four four  years we haven't seen anything resembling the original character of Tony Stark.  Nothing.  We've had a whining weasel in a tin suit, bouncing from one defeat to the next like a pinball.  There hasn't been anything in fraction's writing to prove Tony was a hero once.  Nothing.

[Chaos]

I've also noticed a lot of those Marvel fans who agree think the Civil War characterization is the quintessential Tony Stark, which tells you all you need to know...

[Chaos]

What are the rest of you looking at? Fraction doesn't even suggest Tony is going to die. Do you really think Faction waited 50 issues to "get rid of Tony" and put in his own Iron Man.

Character assassination is a form of killing the character and getting rid of him...

[Mandarin]

He's writing the best he can doing what he thinks is good. And marvel and fans agree.

If this is the best he can do, then marvel has some amazingly low standards.  I'm also unconcerned about what "Marvel Fans" think, to be blunt.  Four four  years we haven't seen anything resembling the original character of Tony Stark.  Nothing.  We've had a whining weasel in a tin suit, bouncing from one defeat to the next like a pinball.  There hasn't been anything in fraction's writing to prove Tony was a hero once.  Nothing.

In the past 4 years he saved the world from the Mandarin  at the end of haunted. Then he beat Ezekial Stane saving lives. Then he sacrificed himself to save his friends because of the list in his head. Then the started a company to help the common man. Then he showed he's a good and humble enough person to embarrass himself to save the lives of thousands. Then he asked a god to return the life to Paris.

Wow you're right Tony's been a real prick in the past four years. I can only assume if you read O'neil's run while it was going on you would have dropped it. Fraction is OBVIOUSLY tearing Tony down to build him back up. He's entering into his third act now and that's when the **** hits the fan.

[Mandarin]

What are the rest of you looking at? Fraction doesn't even suggest Tony is going to die. Do you really think Faction waited 50 issues to "get rid of Tony" and put in his own Iron Man.

Character assassination is a form of killing the character and getting rid of him...

Yeah because there is NO evidence of Tony going rouge before. And Tony would NEVER stand against authority while they try to screw him over. It's just completely out of character. Fraction may as well just have taken Tony out behind the shed and shot him. Tony's not a strong guy who stands against adversity. He's just a guy who hits Crimson Dynamo. Because that's all you guys seem to want is for him to punch somebody every issue.

[Chaos]

Yeah because there is NO evidence of Tony going rouge before. And Tony would NEVER stand against authority while they try to screw him over. It's just completely out of character. Fraction may as well just have taken Tony out behind the shed and shot him.

You obviously have NOT been paying attention to the things we have said. Go back and read all our posts on why it's out of character, you'll find such things as him now being apologetic, spineless and having zero confidence as main reasons he is out of character. Seriously, go back and read them because your example of what we are complaining about is way off base.

Tony's not a strong guy who stands against adversity. He's just a guy who hits Crimson Dynamo. Because that's all you guys seem to want is for him to punch somebody every issue.

Again, you've missed the point of almost everything we've said. We do want action, yes, and by everyone's standards there is a lack of that in Fraction's issues, or at least there should be. Writers like Michilini/Layton, Kaminski and Busiek, hell, just about EVERY writer on this title, could put more drama into a book than Fraction AND add action into it. Fraction has proven utterly incapable of balancing the two in most issues.

[Ironghost]

INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #518 & 519
MATT FRACTION (w) • SALVADOR LARROCA (A&C)
•The New Iron Man explodes into action!
• Spymaster’s rampage within Stark Resilient comes to its bloody end!
• THE ASSASSINATION OF TONY STARK!
32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ ...$3.99 (EACH)

..for those under the delusion that Marvel wouldn't do it. (Again!)

[Alexandre Juliao]

Oh wait, we are talking about the same writer who had Spymaster killed during Fear Itself and yet he is also currently still loitering around Stark Resilient in the current storyarc.

Again, I'm not trying to defend Fraction's shodding writing, but I would like to point out that the original Spymaster is very much alive. Norman Osborn hired him to steal something precious of Tony Stark's in DARK REIGN: MADE MEN (November, 2009).  It was Sinclair Abbott who died at the end of Fear Itself, which was fine with me.

Maybe it's just me loathing every retcon Frank Tieri feel compelled to make, but if I'm remembering correctly, Spymaster never said he was the original in Dark Reign: Made Men. He even tried to deny it, but Norman Osborn just assumed he was and didn't believe him.
Well, if i was in his place and one of the most powerful men in the world, who happens to be completely insane and evil, believes I'm someone else, I would say “Yeah, you're right.”  
Now on other hand, if Marvel confirmed it in another book, I will be cool with it, because Sinclair Abbott was a character too ambitious to be only a mercenary. I think it would be cool if someone ever bring him back in a bigger role.
Actually i dont believe that Fraction really know that Spymaster died, since was Chris Yost who wrote that scene in in Fear Itself #7. I was surprised he knew about the Kid Melter!

[Mandarin]

INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #518 & 519
MATT FRACTION (w) • SALVADOR LARROCA (A&C)
•The New Iron Man explodes into action!
• Spymaster’s rampage within Stark Resilient comes to its bloody end!
• THE ASSASSINATION OF TONY STARK!
32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ ...$3.99 (EACH)

..for those under the delusion that Marvel wouldn't do it. (Again!)

You're crazy if you think Tony will die.

[Typhon]

INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #518 & 519
MATT FRACTION (w) • SALVADOR LARROCA (A&C)
•The New Iron Man explodes into action!
• Spymaster’s rampage within Stark Resilient comes to its bloody end!
• THE ASSASSINATION OF TONY STARK!
32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ ...$3.99 (EACH)

..for those under the delusion that Marvel wouldn't do it. (Again!)

You're crazy if you think Tony will die.

Well, Fraction did "kill" Thor when he had a movie out.  I don't think Tony will die, but I don't think he will be IM anymore.  My guess is they fake Rhodey's death, so he can be IM.   
Does anyone else though find it ridiculous that the government would go along with the plan of shutting down Iron Man?  Considering Cap is in charge of the heroes, doesn't he need to be in on this decision?  Also, they know Hammer's daughter hangs out with known terrorist Zeke Stane, so why do they trust her as Detroit Steel?   

.Actually i dont believe that Fraction really know that Spymaster died, since was Chris Yost who wrote that scene in in Fear Itself #7. I was surprised he knew about the Kid Melter!

Fraction had to be in the know.  The editors and writers have made it clear in the past that when they want to use a character, they are informed of the character's present status.  Especially so if a character is going to be killed off.  Yost had to be told that Spymaster was currently engaged in the IM title, and Fraction had to be told what Yost was planning to do.  Somebody, probably editorial, dropped the ball here.   

[Mandarin]

INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #518 & 519
MATT FRACTION (w) • SALVADOR LARROCA (A&C)
•The New Iron Man explodes into action!
• Spymaster’s rampage within Stark Resilient comes to its bloody end!
• THE ASSASSINATION OF TONY STARK!
32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ ...$3.99 (EACH)

..for those under the delusion that Marvel wouldn't do it. (Again!)

You're crazy if you think Tony will die.

Well, Fraction did "kill" Thor when he had a movie out.  I don't think Tony will die, but I don't think he will be IM anymore.  My guess is they fake Rhodey's death, so he can be IM.   
Does anyone else though find it ridiculous that the government would go along with the plan of shutting down Iron Man?  Considering Cap is in charge of the heroes, doesn't he need to be in on this decision?  Also, they know Hammer's daughter hangs out with known terrorist Zeke Stane, so why do they trust her as Detroit Steel?   

.Actually i dont believe that Fraction really know that Spymaster died, since was Chris Yost who wrote that scene in in Fear Itself #7. I was surprised he knew about the Kid Melter!

Fraction had to be in the know.  The editors and writers have made it clear in the past that when they want to use a character, they are informed of the character's present status.  Especially so if a character is going to be killed off.  Yost had to be told that Spymaster was currently engaged in the IM title, and Fraction had to be told what Yost was planning to do.  Somebody, probably editorial, dropped the ball here.   

He killed Thor with the intention of bringing him back. He said "He's going to be back by the time of the movie. It's not rocket science here. I just had a story to tell" 

It was probably editorial. Fraction probably had no idea Spymaster was killed.

[Brian]

What are the rest of you looking at? Fraction doesn't even suggest Tony is going to die. Do you really think Faction waited 50 issues to "get rid of Tony" and put in his own Iron Man. If he really wanted to do that he would have done it after World's Most Wanted.

Fraction doesn't hate Tony. Bendis talks about this ALL THE TIME. Any and every hardcore fan will attack and jump on EVERY creative team on a book. I mean lots of hardcore  Avengers fans don't like Busiek's Avenger's run because it's just a rip off of Roger Stern's run. This doesn't mean it's bad nor does it mean it's the general consensus. Iron Man sells well enough that Marvel doesn't think they need to remove Fraction. Fraction and all his friends at marvel and MARVEL like his take and think he's doing a good job. So he's not leaving till he wants to. I know saying "vote with your wallets" doesn't really apply here since most of you have dropped the book. But everyone else seems to be enjoying it nor do they think it's character assassination. And when most of the complaints are lack of action and characterization. Marvel DOES NOT CARE. Every single book they have get that complaint. That is the most common complaint about Bendis's books and they are constantly top selling books.

The point is Fraction does not hate Tony and he doesn't think "oh I'm going to get rid of Tony so fans can stop bitching" Because no matter WHAT he does people will bitch. He's writing the best he can doing what he thinks is good. And marvel and fans agree.

Several points. First, the "final" series is called "the Assassination of Tony Stark." Last time I checked, an assassination involves murder. So, I am unclear how you can think Tony isn't going to be dead.

Second, I would agree with you that Matt Fraction doesn't hate Tony Stark any more than he likes or dislikes any other character. Based on what I've read so far, Matt Fraction doesn't like to be constrained in writing what he wants. So, to avoid problems regarding character history, he will remove the character. That way, no one can complain that, for example, the arc reactor was never part of Iron Man's history. He can reply, "Well, this isn't the old Iron Man."

Third, you obviously don't understand how comic sale work. Those numbers we see about how many comics sold actually are only what Marvel sold to its distributors. That does not reflect actual sales. Further, to be a Marvel distributor, you have to buy a certain amount of each Marvel comic. That being said, the sales for Iron Man are dropping like a stone. It's down 50% from two years ago. Iron Man sales rank is now in the high 40s, up from being in the top 20s two years ago.

Fourth, I think the evidence is there that Fraction is writing Tony out to stop people from complaining. Fraction has been making many stupid mistakes regarding Iron Man's lore that he has to go back and correct. To fix that "problem," he's killing the character.

[Roger A Ott II]

Maybe it's just me loathing every retcon Frank Tieri feel compelled to make, but if I'm remembering correctly, Spymaster never said he was the original in Dark Reign: Made Men. He even tried to deny it, but Norman Osborn just assumed he was and didn't believe him.
Well, if i was in his place and one of the most powerful men in the world, who happens to be completely insane and evil, believes I'm someone else, I would say “Yeah, you're right.”  
Now on other hand, if Marvel confirmed it in another book, I will be cool with it, because Sinclair Abbott was a character too ambitious to be only a mercenary. I think it would be cool if someone ever bring him back in a bigger role.

Spymaster's Official Handbook entry states that it was one of the Espionage Elite posing as Spymaster that died by the Ghost's hand way back in the late 80s, and Spymaster then went into hiding, allowing others to take his place. The profile also states it was the original Spymaster that Osborn contacted. While this may never have been specifically confirmed in-story, it was approved by Editorial and is usually passed by the original writers for clarification.

Which is also why everyone should buy the Handbooks! We sometimes get to reveal some backstory details that weren't in the original books!