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Iron YoJimBo
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 05:15:03 PM » |
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TOO scary how it's entitled "Matt Fraction's post Fear Marvel Universe"
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I don't care what color you are, where you come from, what god you worship, who you date, or what your DNA looks like under a scanner.
James Rupert Rhodes (War Machine/Iron Man)
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Iron Mark
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 06:06:46 PM » |
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I am at least relieved that he isn't gearing up to do a relapse story.
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IMJ
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 08:44:17 PM » |
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At this point I'm only ordering Bendis' The Avengers book (which has really suffered with the crossovers the way Mighty Avengers did), and The Annihilators. I'll occasionally order a cool Iron Man variant if I see one coming, but I've been buying the book in chunks at discounts aftermarket, bagged and boarded.
I'll stick with Annihilators, but Avengers has been so slow and meaningless to me (I didn't read Fear Itself), and I'm not interested in a reconfigured team that the latest issue hints at, so I might be dropping that one soon.
I also dropped Savage Dragon with 175 and Witchblade with 150, although I am reading maybe 4 of the new DC books, and a couple of Independents.
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Brian
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 09:22:56 PM » |
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Why is Matt Fraction considered a good writer? I haven't figured it out. Admittedly, all I've seen is his writing Iron Man, but I haven't been impressed at all.
His writing lacks critical thinking. Half the time, I keep thinking "why would anyone do that?" Like the whole "non-weaponized arc-reactor" thing. Anyone who does an ounce of critical thinking knows that's impossible to do. If the Iranians were buying X-boxes for their missile defense system, I believe you can weaponize anything.
It seems his writing is all about feelings. That may be okay for some books, but Iron Man is about intellect.
The key factor in all writing is to know your audience. Know who you're writing for. Matt Fraction, so far, has completely failed in this.
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"I bet when Stan Lee invented Iron Man, he said "Hey, Jack! What if Bruce Wayne weren't such a whiney bitch?"
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IMJ
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 09:52:38 AM » |
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Why is Matt Fraction considered a good writer? I haven't figured it out. I can explain it. IMJ's Law of 3 Rights. I really believe that it's a matter of right place, right time, right marketing; rather than it is about captivating story telling. Fraction came on board with the Iron Man I movie release and modeled his Iron Man after that premise. His stories aren't captivating, and instead are actually contrived and poorly paced. But, the Iron Man book was riding high following the tails of one of the most successful movies of all time. Quite frankly, there were probably critics, reviewers, and store owners who began reading Iron Man after the amazing first movie who popularized the book on a good whim from the film and without the basis of comparative history from previous Iron Man books. Essentially, the book received an inflated aura about it and people don't like to diverge from popular opinion (look at the film industry, it's littered with it. If you criticize something against the grain, your career is over and thus a group of hive-minded individuals arises). To those hive minded reviewers, the current Iron Man book is amazing by popular opinion because it can't possibly be anything but amazing amidst the great movie release. This propegates itself, and is bolstered by artificially inflated sales numbers. Take variant cover marketing into account and you've got inflated sales. Retailers ordering 100 copies of a book to receive a 1 in 100 variant where they otherwise would've normally ordered -wait for it- 20 copies. That's a significant increase, especially by aggregate across the country, just to receive a variant. And Marvel doesn't care because they are selling books (and I don't blame them for that at all). And they bolster Fraction (right place, right time) because everyone sees Iron Man sales, but either cover up or simply don't see the actual market, and they jump at the Fraction correlation rather than the social causation. Bam. There you have it. |
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Iron YoJimBo
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 11:28:31 AM » |
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But can I send it somewhere else?
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I don't care what color you are, where you come from, what god you worship, who you date, or what your DNA looks like under a scanner.
James Rupert Rhodes (War Machine/Iron Man)
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Brian
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 02:44:27 PM » |
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Why is Matt Fraction considered a good writer? I haven't figured it out. I can explain it. IMJ's Law of 3 Rights. I really believe that it's a matter of right place, right time, right marketing; rather than it is about captivating story telling. Fraction came on board with the Iron Man I movie release and modeled his Iron Man after that premise. His stories aren't captivating, and instead are actually contrived and poorly paced. But, the Iron Man book was riding high following the tails of one of the most successful movies of all time. Quite frankly, there were probably critics, reviewers, and store owners who began reading Iron Man after the amazing first movie who popularized the book on a good whim from the film and without the basis of comparative history from previous Iron Man books. Essentially, the book received an inflated aura about it and people don't like to diverge from popular opinion (look at the film industry, it's littered with it. If you criticize something against the grain, your career is over and thus a group of hive-minded individuals arises). To those hive minded reviewers, the current Iron Man book is amazing by popular opinion because it can't possibly be anything but amazing amidst the great movie release. This propegates itself, and is bolstered by artificially inflated sales numbers. Take variant cover marketing into account and you've got inflated sales. Retailers ordering 100 copies of a book to receive a 1 in 100 variant where they otherwise would've normally ordered -wait for it- 20 copies. That's a significant increase, especially by aggregate across the country, just to receive a variant. And Marvel doesn't care because they are selling books (and I don't blame them for that at all). And they bolster Fraction (right place, right time) because everyone sees Iron Man sales, but either cover up or simply don't see the actual market, and they jump at the Fraction correlation rather than the social causation. Bam. There you have it. So, you're saying a lack of critical thinking on Marvel's part let to the preeminence of a mediocre writer. Matt Fraction happened to be the writer in place when the movie came out, which increased the comic sales, and Marvel execs seem to think the increase in sales has to do with Matt Fraction and not the comic. Does anyone know why the Knaufs were let go? They had the best Iron Man story of recent memory (Haunted). |
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"I bet when Stan Lee invented Iron Man, he said "Hey, Jack! What if Bruce Wayne weren't such a whiney bitch?"
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Roger A Ott II
Comic Book Historian
Global Moderator
Extremis Armor
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Posts: 4388
Writer/Researcher for Marvel's Official Handbooks
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 02:53:31 PM » |
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Outside of the glacial-paced storytelling, the writers don't write characters in-character anymore, which is my greatest peeve of all.
Doing some research recently, and in reading one of the Fear Itself issues (I believe) Thor (paraphrasing because I don't have the issues in front of me) called someone "a pain in the ass!" and Captain America said, "Let's go get the son of a bitch!" Does that sound even remotely like the Thor and Cap anybody here knows?
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Iron YoJimBo
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 03:34:39 PM » |
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Their Ultimate counterparts, yes. The 616 Thor & Cap. No.
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I don't care what color you are, where you come from, what god you worship, who you date, or what your DNA looks like under a scanner.
James Rupert Rhodes (War Machine/Iron Man)
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Brian
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2011, 03:43:24 PM » |
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Outside of the glacial-paced storytelling, the writers don't write characters in-character anymore, which is my greatest peeve of all.
Doing some research recently, and in reading one of the Fear Itself issues (I believe) Thor (paraphrasing because I don't have the issues in front of me) called someone "a pain in the ass!" and Captain America said, "Let's go get the son of a bitch!" Does that sound even remotely like the Thor and Cap anybody here knows? I think many people have noted that Tony Stark has not acted in character for a very long time. I've attributed this to Matt Fraction wanting to make Tony Stark in his (Fraction's) image. But it does leave a lot of jarring conflicts. For example, one of the new characters (Wyche?) was fired by Tony in a public and embarrassing way (Tony deleted Wyche's contact information from his cell phone). Tony later states that Wyche practically invested the cell phone and database systems and was a better engineer than Tony. Later, Tony says that he fired Wyche because of Pepper. I read that over a few times and I can't make heads or tails. First, Tony has always been described as a "good boss" and one that people want to work for. I seem to remember at least twice where the staff of Stark Industries/Enterprise was going to quit (or did quit) because Tony was leaving. If Tony was a jerk to his employees, why would they have such loyalty to him? Also, Tony Stark is supposed to be the best engineer in the world. When Hank Pym became the Scientist Supreme, the cosmic entities mention that Tony Stark was the Engineer and Reed Richards is the Explorer. Last, Tony's relationship with Pepper while Stark was in charge of Stark Industries was nearly always employer/employee. There was a brief time when Tony wanted to date Pepper but he stood aside for Happy. Now, he's firing someone over Pepper? Is he that emotionally immature? But, if, as you stated, you ignore character's prior development, you can write whatever you want. Which is what Matt Fraction is doing. Next, we'll see Tony doing needle-point or something like that. |
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"I bet when Stan Lee invented Iron Man, he said "Hey, Jack! What if Bruce Wayne weren't such a whiney bitch?"
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Chaos
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2011, 03:56:29 PM » |
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Does anyone know why the Knaufs were let go? They had the best Iron Man story of recent memory (Haunted).
Probably because they were trying to Make Tony Stark Tony Stark again and they couldn't have that, needing to have a writer that would continue to ride the Iron Man hate bandwagon and bring in readers who just wanted to see him stoop lower and lower. I really didn't care for the Knaufs run, but they at least put the human back in Stark and steered him towards where he used to be. And in comparison to Fraction, their run was a Arnold action movie driven by nonsensical violence... |
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 03:58:13 PM by Chaos »
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Cool Exec
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« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 11:52:38 AM » |
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I think that Matt Fraction does Iron Man with a cool-vibe that speaks the language of the times, which is why I liked him initially and why I still like him--mostly, even though I haven't read it much recently. What I am not liking so much about his work is this sort of loathing for Iron man even as he's writing him. I like the good reason IM had for getting drunk, but no, Matt said it's really the bad reason. I do like the recovery story idea. He's uncomfortable with what IM represents, the rich guy, corporation, confident, establishment, funds the military, so he's been trying to get him away from that as much possible and feel good and guilty about it as much as possible. That annoys me. I like the idea with Iron Man and Zeke Stane "SallyBlamming" Iron Man's rogues gallery. I hope it will be done well and IM can get some cool fights in. Will it happen? One can hope.
Next thing you know he'll be agreeing with those Occupy Wall Street dweebs....
Come on now, I think we all know Stark is one of those Wall Street guys and is the symbolism of corporate greed. He'll be making pleas to the protestors to understand him and apologize for his actions. When they make simple retorts like "you're greedy!" and "I have no job!" Stark will hang his head in shame and walk away defeated with the realization he is everything that is bad for the world... As sarcastic and cynical as that is, you know I am right. I don't know what's worse; that Fraction is such a horrible writer for this character or that the editorial staff actually allows him to do it... I wish this place had a Posts of Awesomeness thread on like Bumbleking. I would totally nominate this. |
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Normal Guy vs The World--the best Webshow in the history of the Internet, is on Youtube! Watch it now!
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Iron Guy
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« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2011, 02:40:26 PM » |
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To tell the truth the only reason I still buy the book is in the event some future writer references something from the fraction run (God forbid) I'll have the issue they're talking about. If not for that I wouldn't bother. Right now I'm REALLY missing the days when there were IM knock-offs everywhere. Anyone remember XO-Manowar, Steel, Hardware, Prototype? At least when those books were around I could get something decent to read out of at least 1 of them any given month. But now it's a 1 man game & right now he's in a serious long running slump. If it weren't for the Star Trek comic I wouldn't look forward to going to the LCS anymore.
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Chaos
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« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 05:34:02 PM » |
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Next thing you know he'll be agreeing with those Occupy Wall Street dweebs....
Come on now, I think we all know Stark is one of those Wall Street guys and is the symbolism of corporate greed. He'll be making pleas to the protestors to understand him and apologize for his actions. When they make simple retorts like "you're greedy!" and "I have no job!" Stark will hang his head in shame and walk away defeated with the realization he is everything that is bad for the world... As sarcastic and cynical as that is, you know I am right. I don't know what's worse; that Fraction is such a horrible writer for this character or that the editorial staff actually allows him to do it... I wish this place had a Posts of Awesomeness thread on like Bumbleking. I would totally nominate this. Haha. Thank you; my ego needed some stroking  |
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Cool Exec
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« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 08:40:40 PM » |
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Like the whole "non-weaponized arc-reactor" thing. Anyone who does an ounce of critical thinking knows that's impossible to do. If the Iranians were buying X-boxes for their missile defense system, I believe you can weaponize anything.
But then you'd have to say the whole far-left "weapons-makers-are-evil-and-if-we-just-stopped-making-weapons-there'd-be-no-more-war" philosophy was garbage. Oh wait...
Next thing you know he'll be agreeing with those Occupy Wall Street dweebs....
Come on now, I think we all know Stark is one of those Wall Street guys and is the symbolism of corporate greed. He'll be making pleas to the protestors to understand him and apologize for his actions. When they make simple retorts like "you're greedy!" and "I have no job!" Stark will hang his head in shame and walk away defeated with the realization he is everything that is bad for the world... As sarcastic and cynical as that is, you know I am right. I don't know what's worse; that Fraction is such a horrible writer for this character or that the editorial staff actually allows him to do it... I wish this place had a Posts of Awesomeness thread on like Bumbleking. I would totally nominate this. Haha. Thank you; my ego needed some stroking I do what I can.  |
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Normal Guy vs The World--the best Webshow in the history of the Internet, is on Youtube! Watch it now!
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