Metal Head
Iron Man Tattoo Freak!
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 07:51:08 AM » |
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Well, I quit reading Iron Man regularly when I was bored to tears with the slow pacing of Warren Ellis' run. Great artwork, glacial pacing and release pattern (what, 6 issues in 2 years?), and that was 2004. I also quit reading the boring Invincible Iron Man during World's Most Wanted in August 2009.
heath
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Chaos
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 03:49:14 PM » |
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Ironic how this has worked out too, considering a big point I spent a lot of time making to guys like Brevoort on the forums and at cons was that Iron Man could grow as a character if they'd quit the revolving writer door and let someone develop the character for a good long run. Then we get Mr. Fraction's interpretation. For 3 years.
It is ironic that we finally get stability in a writer, only the writer has been committing character assassination the entire time. Of course it's not totally Fraction's fault; the editors let all of this happen which makes them just as responsible, and their knowledge of the character just as questionable. I've said it a few times before but it's worth repeating: my readership survived through The Crossing but could not survive through Matt Fraction. I think that this truly is the darkest era of Iron Man, only most of Marvel and its fans have no clue that it is so.
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Typhon
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 10:56:55 PM » |
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In most cases, I would probably agree, but here we're talking about a writer who's been on the book for over 3 years now, with no indication of going away.
You can polish it all you want, but a turd is still a turd. If more people who were dissatisfied with the book would grow a set, stand up and leave the book (even for a few months), we'd get a new writer. Like you (and me) they could buy the issues up from backstock later. Instead, they're just fostering a perpetual loop that shows little chance of stopping. I can almost guarantee that if sales dropped significantly for more than a month or three, there'd be a writer change so fast it'd make everyone's head spin.
The problem is that most people AREN'T dissatisfied with it. I've said it before as have a few others that we here on this board truly are the minority in our opinion of Fraction's IM run. General readers are satisfied with this book. The high sales are proof of that as is the large amount of critical praise it gets. About a week or two back, CBR asked their readers to pick 52 Marvel books to reboot and choose the creative teams in the vein of the upcoming DC reboot. The majority of the lists wanted to keep Fraction and Larocca on IM. A few lists had Brubaker as writer and there was an Ellis and Nick Spencer in there too, but those were few and far between. The people want Fraction, and they've made that decision loud and clear. The best we can do is wait it out at this point. Personally, I still buy the book. I've made my dissatisfaction with it clear, but I can't bring myself to pass it up. I've thought about it many times, but I don't because I know I will regret it. I stopped buying IM during The Crossing, and while I was satisfied at the time, as I got older and started looking through my collection, I was disappointed in myself for giving up. Especially since the book got better when Busiek came onboard. It doesn't make complete sense, I know, but I'd rather just grab the book now rather than stress about it later. I have stopped buying the trades of the book and I never buy a variant no matter how cool the cover. Truthfully, I think the book was fairly ok until recently. It wasn't until halfway through Stark Resilient that the book took an incredible nosedive it has yet to recover from. One that will and has tarnished this run forever, even if Fraction were to somehow start turning out awesome issue after awesome issue. Fraction will leave eventually, and when he does, I'll buy a shirt that says "I Survived."
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Iron Mark
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« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 11:26:54 PM » |
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If it's any consolation, I've seen some of the same dissatisfaction grow with Thor fans since Fraction took over. Then again I saw the same with Uncanny X-Men. He seems to be a writer who for most people is you like him or you don't.
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IronManKyle
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 03:41:44 AM » |
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Bring Back Mike Grell!  -I say that with a tiny bit of sincerity, but i never totally minded his run tooo much. I know i'm in the minority here saying that, but I was younger and didn't know better  Looking back at some recently, he did give some guilty pleasure stories such as the 'In Shining Iron' Jane Doe' and 'You Can't Always Get' stories as well as the solid 'Manhunt' stories. No they weren't very 'normal Iron Man-like adventures' but it was ok to have a crazy change pace briefly. (But I'll never forgive him for Outing Tony as IM publicly) -I've given Mr. Frattion the benefit of the doubt before on here in saying some of his concepts are 'ok' on paper really, but he does not deliver on writing them out and ending them well, and even I have my limits. . .
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Metal Head
Iron Man Tattoo Freak!
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 08:18:22 AM » |
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I have a friend from high school who has always been an X-Men fan, and he loves Fraction's run, so there you go.
heath
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IMJ
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 10:43:11 AM » |
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The problem is that most people AREN'T dissatisfied with it. I've said it before as have a few others that we here on this board truly are the minority in our opinion of Fraction's IM run. General readers are satisfied with this book. The high sales are proof of that as is the large amount of critical praise it gets. About a week or two back, CBR asked their readers to pick 52 Marvel books to reboot and choose the creative teams in the vein of the upcoming DC reboot. The majority of the lists wanted to keep Fraction and Larocca on IM. A few lists had Brubaker as writer and there was an Ellis and Nick Spencer in there too, but those were few and far between. The people want Fraction, and they've made that decision loud and clear. The best we can do is wait it out at this point.
Personally, I still buy the book. I've made my dissatisfaction with it clear, but I can't bring myself to pass it up. I've thought about it many times, but I don't because I know I will regret it. I stopped buying IM during The Crossing, and while I was satisfied at the time, as I got older and started looking through my collection, I was disappointed in myself for giving up. Especially since the book got better when Busiek came onboard. It doesn't make complete sense, I know, but I'd rather just grab the book now rather than stress about it later. I have stopped buying the trades of the book and I never buy a variant no matter how cool the cover. Truthfully, I think the book was fairly ok until recently. It wasn't until halfway through Stark Resilient that the book took an incredible nosedive it has yet to recover from. One that will and has tarnished this run forever, even if Fraction were to somehow start turning out awesome issue after awesome issue. Fraction will leave eventually, and when he does, I'll buy a shirt that says "I Survived." Good post here, but I just want to point out that I think the statistics related to this book's sales, the fan reports and reviews can be wildly skewed. I mean... let's be honest and say that we aren't talking about the most accurately measured or judged hobby around. Fan support is widely gauged nowadays by forum chatter which tends to be full of extremes and Real Gross Sales don't reflect actual readership because the numbers are widely blurred by tiered ordering so a vendor can receive an incentive. As for reviewers... well let's just say that many reviewers simply review what's en vogue and they often times make their reviews sync up to the zeitgeist review so that they aren't the odd man out in the talkbacks. Now I'm not completely discounting any valid sales on the book with wild theories, instead I'm just trying to point out that it's possible that "The Invincible Iron Man" isn't being supported in quite the way that Marvel would have us believe. And if it is? I'm glad for it, but that doesn't change my opinion that the entire run of "Invincible Iron Man" written by Matt Fraction has sucked incredibly, in my opinion.
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Roger A Ott II
Comic Book Historian
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2011, 06:55:43 AM » |
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Real Gross Sales don't reflect actual readership because the numbers are widely blurred by tiered ordering so a vendor can receive an incentive.
This is one of the biggest issues I see with trying to count a book's actual readership. It's been a problem pretty much since the early 90s when speculators started buying up tons of copies, thereby causing shops to increase orders due to demand. Now, it's these blasted variant covers (some books have 5 or more covers, wtf...), so gauging any sort of actual readership is next to impossible. This sort of rationale by sales/marketing is a desperate attempt to keep numbers up in an industry that's gasping for air.
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Metal Head
Iron Man Tattoo Freak!
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 07:34:51 AM » |
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In the early 90s, 100,000 copies sold was seen as a failure. Today, 100,000 copies is a hit.
heath
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IMJ
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« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2011, 11:34:25 AM » |
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In the early 90s, 100,000 copies sold was seen as a failure. Today, 100,000 copies is a hit.
heath
Make that a blistering success. Most big number books have print runs that are more akin to the best days of Valiant Comics than they do to any kind of gold award run.
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Feral Female
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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2011, 11:53:12 AM » |
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Hello gents, it`s been awhile since I`ve been here. Thanks MC for tugging me back! I have to say that`s a very well written letter Jedi. It sums up what myself and quite a few other fans of Tony have been feeling for some time.
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The IronJedi
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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2011, 06:45:49 PM » |
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Hello gents, it`s been awhile since I`ve been here. Thanks MC for tugging me back! I have to say that`s a very well written letter Jedi. It sums up what myself and quite a few other fans of Tony have been feeling for some time.
Thanks FF. Glad to see you back. Two issues w/o letter pages since submitting it... still waiting to see if an editor will step up and print & respond to it. Here's hoping.
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 “I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is." - Albert Camus
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Mandarin
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« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2011, 03:10:06 AM » |
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The thing I want to mention about this letter is that it's not entirely fair. The big complaint people keep throwing around is that Tony is never in the suit. That was only true in Resilient (arguable dissembled too but I don't think that should count since Tony was in a persistent vegetative state). Since then he is armored in every issue but 1. We have tony in Armor in 500, 502,503,504, and 505. On top of that Tony was in armor almost every issue pre Disassembled. Also you said point to another book where the hero is out of costume that much.....that happens a lot. Daredevil would go whole arcs without being in costume under Bendis.
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The IronJedi
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« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2011, 09:41:24 AM » |
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The thing I want to mention about this letter is that it's not entirely fair. The big complaint people keep throwing around is that Tony is never in the suit. That was only true in Resilient (arguable dissembled too but I don't think that should count since Tony was in a persistent vegetative state). Since then he is armored in every issue but 1. We have tony in Armor in 500, 502,503,504, and 505. On top of that Tony was in armor almost every issue pre Disassembled. Also you said point to another book where the hero is out of costume that much.....that happens a lot. Daredevil would go whole arcs without being in costume under Bendis.
I guess I should have specified "and doing something."  We've seen very little of the suit's "bleeding edge" abilities.
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 “I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is." - Albert Camus
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Mandarin
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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2011, 11:24:13 AM » |
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The thing I want to mention about this letter is that it's not entirely fair. The big complaint people keep throwing around is that Tony is never in the suit. That was only true in Resilient (arguable dissembled too but I don't think that should count since Tony was in a persistent vegetative state). Since then he is armored in every issue but 1. We have tony in Armor in 500, 502,503,504, and 505. On top of that Tony was in armor almost every issue pre Disassembled. Also you said point to another book where the hero is out of costume that much.....that happens a lot. Daredevil would go whole arcs without being in costume under Bendis.
I guess I should have specified "and doing something."  We've seen very little of the suit's "bleeding edge" abilities. Well we've seen it can do anything fraction wants it to do. And it has an energy blade.
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