Ignoring Continuity

[The IronJedi]

I realize I'm not only openning a discussion, but also a can'o'worms, but I was wondering how my fellow ferrophiles feel about continuity? For one opinion, see my interview with Chuck Austen in a past issue of A.I.

It seems vol. 4 is subtly and selectively retconning Iron Man's continuity. Let me present a case in point, it seems Execute Program, a fairly good story, ignores previous recent continuity. If you think about it, Yinsen's brain implant could not have been present in Tony's head for a protracted period of time. Why, you ask? Because when Tony (and the rest of the mainstream Maarvel Heroes) were reconstituted into the Marvel Universe proper, Franklin Richards pretty much reset Tony's physiology. In his child-like innocence, Franklin created a healthy Tony- no heart issue, no artificial nervous system, etc. This being the case, there shouldn't have been an implant in his head.

Personally, and as suggested by IronHube, this could have been avoided by the Knauf's having the Controller being the villain and the implant happening during Tony and Basil's encounter/pre-confrontation in Vol. 3.

 Hmmm... So, what do you think? Weigh in...

[Tetragrammaton]

Continuity is viewed as nothing more than limitations placed on a creative team and has been all but outlawed at the Marvel offices.

The only story that matters to them is the next issue. The one that still has to be paid for. The past is over. History is over. Long live the reign of Q.

[Roger A Ott II]

I like continuity to the point that past events are referenced and acknowledged.  I'm not one of those people who insist on figuring out just how many years ago the FF went up in that rocket.  To me, every new issue happens now.  Every old issue happens before now.  Anything too far beyond that will make your head hurt.

Trying to find a sense of continuity in today's Marvel comics is almost impossible.  While reading Civil War and all the associated books, I had a heck of a time keeping things straight.  Spider-Man was Back in Black in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man almost two months before that particular event even started in Amazing Spider-Man.  That was confusing as hell.

I hate to have to agree with Tetra's first sentence, but it seems to be the case more and more these days.

[Chaos]

To be honest, I've noticed continuity being thrown out the window for everything. I've heard quite a few gripes from Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek fans about this, then you have us comic fans which are saying the same thing. It seems nowadays that writers are more interested in savng time by retconning ratehr than taking the time to look up the character(s), get to know them and do the story properly.

As I've said before, I hate retconning because it not only screws up the characters history but also screws up the present, and that only leads to more retconning. But at this point I beleive one massive retconning, anmely everything that has been done under Joe Q, is the only option. I really think he has screwed things up that much and there is no way to repair it little by little. Go back to the issue every comic was last on when he took over, and start again with the next issue in the same volume.  

[Chaos]

I like continuity to the point that past events are referenced and acknowledged.  I'm not one of those people who insist on figuring out just how many years ago the FF went up in that rocket.  To me, every new issue happens now.  Every old issue happens before now.  Anything too far beyond that will make your head hurt.

I agree with that. It is better to leave things ambiguous rather than set an exact time. Cap was unfrozen decades after WWII, not X amount of decades. Switch IM's origin to be just in Vietnam, not in Vietnam during the war, but now in ten, twenty years the same thing will need to be redone and IM's origin will be with whoever the US is fighting at that time. I can't wait until he's captured by penguins in antartica and forced to make weapons for them to kill sea lions (god I hope Joe Q doesnt read that, he may actually do it).

Being ambiguous is key. Putting an exact time frame in only makes things worse, especially afterwards people realize they made a mistake in calculating things.

[Tetragrammaton]

Aside from being boring, this was a large reason I disliked Star Trek : Enterprise as a series.

[Chaos]

Aside from being boring, this was a large reason I disliked Star Trek : Enterprise as a series.

That's exactly the one I had in mind that I head a lot of gripes about.

[Iron Kaiser]

Chaos is right.  After Iron Man: the Initiative storyline, then they went to WWH without any resolve on the destruction of the Helicarrier or the death of Sal Kennedy.  After every story, things seem to get retconned.  Unfortunately Chaos, you've doomed us all by typing about the penguins.  Now, Joe Q's "**** up comics" senses will tingle, and he'll make Tony a prisoner of Penguin Chu the Arctic communist overlord for sure. 

[SirReef]

There is one problem to Chaos' theory of penguins:  it has to do with melting the polar ice caps and contributing to a global meltdown.  In his captivity, he's burning ice and comes across a man that was buried in the ice sometime after the "Marvel Civil War" ... and thus Captain America-Yinsin is born again!

Jeez, don't you know anything?

Seriously though ... I do think some continuity is a real creative issue at times and as long as retconning happens elegantly, then that's okay.  As long as the story makes sense and moves the narrative forward, I'm fine with it.  Changes that don't advance the "long-term" story of a character is just obnoxious.

But, the one real issue with comics is that they sprawl so much time that they are a spaghetti mess. 

Truthfully, I was really excited about the Ultimate Universe since it could rewrite and start fresh ... but instead of doing this, they just "Ultimatized" all the stories. 

At times, I would not be abject to rebooting the entire Marvel universe.  Start from square one.  Learn from the mistakes that they learned in the dozens of years of publishing.  But, that won't happen and we're stuck in a world where hands are tied and the only way to untie them is to create history.

[Roger A Ott II]

Speaking of continuity, I have to give much credit to the folks that are putting together the current Official Handbooks of the Marvel Universe.  They have the daunting task of sorting through the terrible conglomeration of tangled plotlines that the Marvel Universe has become in the past few years, and trying to make sense of it all.

Issue #4 of this year's Update Handbook (coming in October) will feature entries on Iron Man villains Spymaster and the Unicorn.  I have received word from one of the writers that they'll be clearing up the continuity mess with the Unicorn.  Can't wait to see that!

[IMJ]

Speaking of continuity, I have to give much credit to the folks that are putting together the current Official Handbooks of the Marvel Universe.  They have the daunting task of sorting through the terrible conglomeration of tangled plotlines that the Marvel Universe has become in the past few years, and trying to make sense of it all.

Issue #4 of this year's Update Handbook (coming in October) will feature entries on Iron Man villains Spymaster and the Unicorn.  I have received word from one of the writers that they'll be clearing up the continuity mess with the Unicorn.  Can't wait to see that!

You really like those Handbooks, dontcha Rog?  You are getting me interested in them... lol.  You should take some pictures of all of your Marvel Handbooks and post them.  I haven't seen the covers to probably 98% of them.....

[Roger A Ott II]

You really like those Handbooks, dontcha Rog?

Yep.  For a comic history buff like myself, they're invaluable, especially for my work on the Timeline and Vault here at the site.  I don't plagiarize directly from them, but they give me good starting points for reference.  Plus, they help me keep track of characters I don't follow regularly anymore, and discover new ones I never knew about.

You should take some pictures of all of your Marvel Handbooks and post them.  I haven't seen the covers to probably 98% of them.....

Pictures would take awhile, as there's over a hundred books in the OHOTMU library at this point, but I've got cover scans of almost all of them.  I'll start a thread over in General Comics Discussion and showcase some stuff.

[Tetragrammaton]

When the first series came out in 1983, I felt like they were being made just for me.

I love these things.

I challenge anyone to name all the characters on this image. 

[Roger A Ott II]

When the first series came out in 1983, I felt like they were being made just for me.

That's it!  That's it exactly!  I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Iron Kaiser]

Tetra, I was only able to name about 30% of them.
Here I go:
              Annihilus
              Beta Ray Bill
              Beetle
              Black Cat
              Black Bolt
              Angel
              Mister Sinister
              Goliath
              Ego the Living Planet
              Firestar
              Elektra
              Falcon
              Hobgoblin
              Hulk
              Human Torch
              Medusa
              Hercules
              Guardsman
              Galactus
              Andrea and Andreas Strucker
              Electro
              Baron Mordo
              Mister Fantastic
              MODOK
              Mysterio
              Speed Demon
              Spider-Man
              Silver Surfer
              Namor
              Stilt-Man
              Spider-Woman
              Super Skrull
              Captain America
              Photon
              Kree Supreme Intelligence
              Nick Fury
              Iron Man
              She-Hulk
              Bullseye
              Crimson Dynamo
              Immortus
              Invisible Woman
              Hawkeye
              Nova
              Punisher
              Terminus
              Maelstrom
              Luke Cage
              Tigra
              Ulik
              Nightcrawler
              Uatu the Watcher
              Captain Britain
              Zzzax
              Thor
              Thing
              Ymir
              4 Sentinels
              Dr. Octopus
              Deathlok
              Cyclops
              Daredevil
              Loki
              Iceman
              Kingpin
              Valkyrie
              Wolverine
              Vision
               Ultron
               Rom the Spaceknight
              Dr. Strange
               Eternity
               Death
               Corsair
               Dr. Doom
               Magneto
               Zeus
               In-Betweener
               Kang the Conqueror
               Ronan the Accuser
               Wonder Man
               Empress Lilandra
               Kurse
                Scarlet Witch
               Vulture
               Sasquatch
               Sentry
               Emma Frost
               Wasp
               Shaper of Worlds
               Madame Masque
               Quasar
                x-23
                Guardian
                Mandarin
                Count Nefaria
                Beast
                Doc Samson
               Moon Knight